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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 03:33 AM
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Peephole
Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 1766
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Bums got off topic. Needed a new thread. Here it is.
Discuss. Merits of communism vs. merits of capitalism......on we go. |
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"History suggests that capitalism is a necessary condition for political freedom" -Milton Friedman
"The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm, capitalism is that kind of a system. " Friedman again
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 03:40 AM
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suspended
Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 639
Location: Your Little Brother's Bedroom
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Oi! I told you not to do this!
Oh well.. If anyone has questions they can ask... leave the bum topic for discussing that. |
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 03:42 AM
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Needle
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 3552
Location: Manchester
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Indeed this is an interesting thread.
Can I lay out some ground rules? - - - - - Please don't turn this into a flaming ground thank you very much.
I believe that Communism goes against human nature. Humans are bound together by the fear of death or loss to one another. Therefore self-interest is the base human nature and Capitalism suits this more than communism. As pointed out in a previous thread I also think it's wrong to use heirs and heiresses like Paris Hilton as an example of why capitalism is 'bad'. Heirs and heiresses live off the sucess of their parents and this has no relevance to the argument at all. |
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Real quotes from soadfans;
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92 years of denial........
it was pretty funny
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I was the cause of wars in the past
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 03:46 AM
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Marmalade
Joined: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: SOAD Fans Photo Gallery, most likely
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WAIT.
First, DEFINE "Communism" & "Capitalism". Depending on some definitions, I can almost agree with communism. |
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Thank you (for your patience & great work), Melo!!!
Armenians unite, copy this into your signature if you're Armenian!
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 03:50 AM
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Needle
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 3552
Location: Manchester
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| There are many definitions of Communism. Different theorists have their takes and opinions on communism. Marxism tends to be a very popular yet overexposed and romantic branch of the communist tree. This happens even though many don't appreciate or understand the merits and disadvantages of marxism. |
_________________
Real quotes from soadfans;
Quote:
92 years of denial........
it was pretty funny
Quote:
I was the cause of wars in the past
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 03:52 AM
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Peephole
Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 1766
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Pickle-Party wrote:
Oi! I told you not to do this!
Oh well.. If anyone has questions they can ask... leave the bum topic for discussing that.
You wanted to debate it over IM, I couldn't get the ebuddy thing to work. I can be on for an extended time, an hour or so tomorrow at 1:00 pm EST if you're still interested in that. This is pretty convenient imo.
Anyway. I got a question for you about Communism. It is true that one of the tenets of Communism is no trade, correct? If this is true, my question is why? Everyone benefits from trade. |
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"History suggests that capitalism is a necessary condition for political freedom" -Milton Friedman
"The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm, capitalism is that kind of a system. " Friedman again
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 03:59 AM
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Peephole
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 1980
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A question I have about communism:
I've heard it said on this website a few times that Communism would reduce overproduction, and in turn protect the environment. My question is, how are you going to stop people from wanting more material goods? The only way I can see that happening is by forcing the public to not want material goods, and that sounds really bloody to me. |
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I hate it when people complain, but I have no idea what to do about it but complain.
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 04:04 AM
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Needle
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 3552
Location: Manchester
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In short, in nature it is in human nature to aquire the means to sustain ones own life. Therefore greed and selfishness are part of the human psyche(sp?). Although we have long abandoned the state of nature for the state of state (lol?) it still remains that greed and selfishness are good and natural humand emotions. Therefore Communism, though good in theory, can not exist as long as humans are bound to their natural goals.
Human life without state and isloated in nature is nasty, brutish and short.
Sorry to use such deep words, I hate it myself  |
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Real quotes from soadfans;
Quote:
92 years of denial........
it was pretty funny
Quote:
I was the cause of wars in the past
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 04:10 AM
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suspended
Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 639
Location: Your Little Brother's Bedroom
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Hoffness wrote:
A question I have about communism:
I've heard it said on this website a few times that Communism would reduce overproduction, and in turn protect the environment. My question is, how are you going to stop people from wanting more material goods? The only way I can see that happening is by forcing the public to not want material goods, and that sounds really bloody to me.
Hi hoff.... wonderful question!
Alternitives would be made... using differant recyclable materials, so new ones wouldnt have to be dirived from the earth (trees, soil, animals).
We beleive that inevitable distructions leads from doing what we are doing now (cutting down massive amounts of trees, killing more animals then will be used). So overproduction simply means that we will make the product to meet the demand.. However with the media going communist it would mean that products woulnt be pushed, no doubt resulting in a drop in product request like toys, movies and clothes.
insted art, music and and chairty would be going up by the shit loads.
Like... Listen if there is a product on tv that is advertised really cool then the kid or teen is going to say "WOW MOM BUY ME THAT!!!!" and from ther on think it is necessary for their existance.
Its not. Reality check.
And if a girl sees clothes that a re really nice and the ad says it will make her cool then she is going to go and buy it.... (that is how the mini-purse revolution started).
Ads will only discribe the product and not grandiose it, is my take on communist media and catologues.
You be in charge of what you buy, not some rediculous tv commerical.
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Can you say brainwashing?
So pretty much summed up it is:
Less media pressure = the demand going down = controlled portions being made = less materials being used = a less attacked enviroment.
EDIT:
Quote:
In short, in nature it is in human nature to aquire the means to sustain ones own life. Therefore greed and selfishness are part of the human psyche(sp?). Although we have long abandoned the state of nature for the state of state (lol?) it still remains that greed and selfishness are good and natural humand emotions. Therefore Communism, though good in theory, can not exist as long as humans are bound to their natural goals.
Human life without state and isloated in nature is nasty, brutish and short.
Sorry to use such deep words, I hate it myself
It could be that humans are greedy and brutish creatures. It could also be that people can override the negitive aspects of their mind.
But it has yet to be debated.
Humans can very well do that... I mean look at the gurus of the Hindu religion... they say that Pure thought can lead to no harm... By acting in a selfless way you gratify your karma *indian music starts playing*
Perhaps we should get those Gurus to teach us a thing or 2. lol.
But still a good argument non the less. |
Last edited by Pickle-Party on Feb 23, 2007 - 04:15 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Feb 23, 2007 - 04:14 AM
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Peephole
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 1980
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| ^^ My main issue with it is that people won't simply change to fit their governments. I believe governments change to fit the people, and I don't see any time in the future when a majority will actually want to become Communist. |
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I hate it when people complain, but I have no idea what to do about it but complain.
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire
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